Upgrading to new D&D edition?

[MrAndrewJ]

2 hours ago, hakootoko said:

The 'scrubbed' version of PF is both a CYA and a challenge to Hasbro: if you pull this again, we're ready for you.

I felt like it was both a CYA and a Dear John letter.

"Dear Hasbro. You tried to take advantage of my trust. That destroyed any faith I can have in you. We are over. Your friends also saw what you did. So many of them want nothing more to do with you. I have moved to a nicer home. Don't contact me. Don't even look for me. Good luck on your own. --Paizo."

[paula36]

It's not just Kobold that made their own version, En Publishing is already offering a full-fledged one:

https://www.levelup5e.com/

I'd be very curious about actual play experience with it. Anyone?

[leons1701]

I'll admit some curiosity myself.

Anyhow, the PF 2.1 stuff is really not changed all that much (outside of some lore stuff that gets really weird if you think about it too long like dragons suddenly having been different all along or no, there really weren't drow in Golarion (I always thought they were a weird fit anyhow and ignored them)). Probably a lot less changed than whatever One D&D will turn out to be.

AoN is supposed to be getting some sort of toggle to switch between original and remastered, probably similar to how Pathbuilder works now (I still can't believe that is a one man fan operation, talk about skill and dedication).

[Kylia Quilor]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:54 PM, paula36 said:

I'd be very curious about actual play experience with it. Anyone?

I recently got my hands on a bunch of the LevelUp Pdfs. it sounds really interesting, has for a while, but I admit my aversion to 5e has also grown since I first heard of it, so I don't know when I'll get around to looking at it beyond cursory skimming.

[Malkavian Grin]

On 12/17/2023 at 9:09 AM, Melkar said:

I’ve invested so much money in 5th Edition that I can’t justify the expense to buy a whole new set of rules

This is exactly why I didn't upgrade away from D&D 3.5e... It's much the same feeling why I stopped playing Magic: The Gathering.

On 12/17/2023 at 9:53 AM, cailano said:

Hasbro doesn’t have a lot of good will in the community right now.

Yeahhhh, especially not after firing about a thousand people from WotC right before Xmas.

On 12/17/2023 at 11:24 AM, Michael Silverbane said:

I made a decision some time ago not to support Hasbro / WotC anymore after the shenanigans the corporate overlords of those companies have got up to. I would recommend others do the same.

Same! No gods, no masters!

[ABlotOfInk]

Yeah, I'm someone on the anti-hasbro train so I don't intend to upgrade to the latest version once it comes out. Abusing the open license, firing all their artists to use AI, and just generally being shitty has been enough for me to swear all their stuff off. I won't be going back to D&D unless there's a whole lot of changes in leadership.

Plus, it's a really good excuse to finally convince my table to try other games :P

[MrAndrewJ]

15 hours ago, ABlotOfInk said:

firing all their artists to use AI

Everything I've heard to this point is that Wizards is (so far) supporting human artists. They even seem to have established a genuine boundary against using AI art in their products -- if only for the moment. It's one of the very few ethical decisions they seem to have made this year.

Sometimes, I hope that praising a good choice will lead to other good choices. So, I'm happy to give them credit for their AI policies.

The other decisions were enough to lose me as a customer and a player. Even playing the game feels to much like advertising for it.

Edited December 20, 2023 by MrAndrewJ
Typo (see edit history)

[ABlotOfInk]

4 hours ago, MrAndrewJ said:

Everything I've heard to this point is that Wizards is (so far) supporting human artists. They even seem to have established a genuine boundary against using AI art in their products -- if only for the moment. It's one of the very few ethical decisions they seem to have made this year.

Sometimes, I hope that praising a good choice will lead to other good choices. So, I'm happy to give them credit for their AI policies.

The other decisions were enough to lose me as a customer and a player. Even playing the game feels to much like advertising for it.

Yeah, tbh comment was a bit premature, and it is Hasbro not wizards doing it. Wizards has said that their 2024 releases are all human artists, but honestly, after the OSR debacle it just leaves me with way less confidence in them doing the right thing in the future.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Haven't given Hasbro/ WotC a dime since the 3.5 - 4e changeover. Got no problem with a new edition coming out but the way they told all their retail partners to pull the existing 3e from shelves to try and force consumer behavior was a bridge too far for me. Got most of the rest of my D&D books second-hand or in PDF. It was the first in a lot of decisions they've made that I have problems with. I feel for the employees but I'm pretty much in to "dance in the light while the company burns" mode at this point.

[burninforyou]

The changes brought by each new edition are not necessarily "upgrades" or "degradations", just changes. 5e is the McDonalds of D&D - it caters to more or less everyone, but it's not really anyone's favourite. It suffices. It'll do, within reason. I've met people who hate 5e for being too easy and love AD&D for being challenging, and I've met people who love 5e for accessibility and hate AD&D for being too punishing. It's mostly just down to taste tbh.

but yeah 6e or onednd or whatever they want to call it looks pretty awful

[Chaz Hoosier]

Some of us haven't really moved on from 3.5. 😆

[bwatford]

On 12/18/2023 at 4:54 PM, paula36 said:

It's not just Kobold that made their own version, En Publishing is already offering a full-fledged one:

https://www.levelup5e.com/

I'd be very curious about actual play experience with it. Anyone?

LevelUp is a solid game, they claim it to be 5e compatible, but it simply isn't. There is way too much power creep on the character side of things that makes running out of the box adventurers for 5e or the monsters within 5e a very big non challenge.

If you use their bestiary you will do ok with the system, but it does put limits on material you have to use.

They really should have moved away from 5e altogether as should have Kobold Press, both systems are basically 5e with more crunch that causes either to struggle with compatibility. I think both wanted the sales that come with the words 5e compatible more than they wanted to pull away.

[bwatford]

On 1/11/2024 at 10:09 AM, burninforyou said:

The changes brought by each new edition are not necessarily "upgrades" or "degradations", just changes. 5e is the McDonalds of D&D - it caters to more or less everyone, but it's not really anyone's favourite. It suffices. It'll do, within reason. I've met people who hate 5e for being too easy and love AD&D for being challenging, and I've met people who love 5e for accessibility and hate AD&D for being too punishing. It's mostly just down to taste tbh.

but yeah 6e or onednd or whatever they want to call it looks pretty awful

That is the sad thing.

When the play packets first started it looked as if they were really trying to fix the balance issues that 5e has. They really made an effort to bring OP classes in and flesh out some of the lackluster stuff. It was going in the right direction from a game mechanic standpoint. But then when feedback started, and people hated the nerfs, (as they always do) they caved, for popular demand and now the latest issues are a mess and they have fixed nothing, just enough changes now to sell more books with no reason at all for the change in edition.

But as a lot of 3rd party companies depend on the popularity of D&D to sell products, most will change over and keep pushing ahead and as more and more people change, others will begrudgingly come along. The new edition is close enough to 5e, hell it is 5e with a handful of changes that they are not going to lose their large marketshare because the competing products are much along the same line with less VTT and online support, which is where all the TTRPG's are headed. More and more play exclusively online now.

Paizo was the only company that had a shot and PF2e just didn't do it, most gamers I know (and I know a lot) tried it and moved away from it pretty quickly, (myself included) although a few still play. Just not enough to threaten WotC. Not even close.

Unfornately as a paid pro GM that runs multiple tables per week of 5e in Fantasy grounds, I am sure I will follow along with the next edition as that is where the majority of players will be and having a larger player pool makes filling tables easier. It really is just simple math for me.

[cailano]

15 hours ago, Chaz Hoosier said:

Some of us haven't really moved on from 3.5. 😆

Heck, some of us haven't really moved on from AD&D and Basic. I completely agree with @burninforyou's statement. Change doesn't always mean improvement.

In reality, you can have a great D&D game with any edition. It's more about choosing the flavor your group likes. Or, on the Weave, about the GM choosing a flavor and then assembling a group of players who enjoy it.

For me, the best editions are actually the indie spin-offs. I liked Pathfinder better than 3.5, and when I play OSR I like using systems like Basic Fantasy or Castles and Crusades.

[Lord Foul]

2 minutes ago, cailano said:

15 hours ago, Chaz Hoosier said:

Some of us haven't really moved on from 3.5. 😆

Heck, some of us haven't really moved on from AD&D and Basic.

I'm in both those camps. I mostly play 3.5 but I still run AD&D.

Can't be dealin' with these noofangled editions! Bah, get orff my lawn!