PbP "Going through the motions" ?

[Vladim]

On 1/10/2024 at 12:12 PM, cailano said:

1. Post regularly. The GM determines the pace of the game. I try to post multiple days per week, with five being the goal even if I don't always get there.

Generally points I agree with @cailano. The first one I am not so sure about - 5/week feels like an excellent way to get burned out, at least for me, and I've personally managed to run engaging, long-lasting games with much less than that (2-3/week is more my comfort zone these days). But it depends on post contents too-lengthier posts may require slowing down a bit, which has been my preference...

I think this is more a YMMV situation than a good rule or even guideline. But if it works for your group, that's great!

[Lord Foul]

I think the GM's posting rate is very much a YMMV thing, and for each group to find its own 'sweet spot' that works for them.

The main point here, though, is that you don't get a situation where people are regularly waiting around for "what feels like an excessively long time" for somebody to post, and that could be GM or player. If a player is holding things up the GM is the only one who has the authority to move the game along, and should do so. But if it's the GM who is causing the hold up that's a far more serious problem... and the game will likely fold.

 

[farothel]

A discord OOC might also help. I've noticed that in the games I'm in where there is a Discord chat, we engage each other a lot easier. You can pop in a quick question if for instance you're not sure about a scene, discuss things with your fellow players/GM before posting so there's a plan. I'm not saying every game needs one, but I've seen it help certainly.

[Michael Silverbane]

1 hour ago, farothel said:

A discord OOC might also help.

I'm not sure that I agree. While I have nothing against Discord (I've seen some people who are actively against Discord), I have never understood the idea that conversing on Discord is any easier or more convenient than posting on the forum. Discords tend to be less well organized, or have less game-centric organization(?), so it seems like messages are more likely to be lost or missed on Discord than in the game forum.

[Lord Foul]

1 hour ago, Michael Silverbane said:

I'm not sure that I agree. While I have nothing against Discord (I've seen some people who are actively against Discord), I have never understood the idea that conversing on Discord is any easier or more convenient than posting on the forum. Discords tend to be less well organized, or have less game-centric organization(?), so it seems like messages are more likely to be lost or missed on Discord than in the game forum.

Both of the games I'm involved in here have OOC threads as part of the game, to cover all this chat between participants. I thought that was a standard thing.

 

[Phntm888]

1 hour ago, Michael Silverbane said:

I'm not sure that I agree. While I have nothing against Discord (I've seen some people who are actively against Discord), I have never understood the idea that conversing on Discord is any easier or more convenient than posting on the forum. Discords tend to be less well organized, or have less game-centric organization(?), so it seems like messages are more likely to be lost or missed on Discord than in the game forum.

Discord allows for more real time conversation about the game or other topics, which can help replicate the experience of playing around a table and keep player engagement high. Rather than wait 2-3 hours for someone to respond to a post in an OOC thread, you can often get a response within a few minutes, and have more of a back and forth conversation.

As for game organization, it's not too dissimilar from Myth-Weavers. You can create a server, and then create different channels within that server. For instance, you could have a general OOC channel, and then a specific GM Questions channel. You just have to put the time and effort into organizing it in a way that works and helps prevent things from getting lost.

The drawback is that you get out of a Discord what you put into it. If you never post in the Discord or don't organize the Discord to prevent things from getting lost or missed, it doesn't add any actual value to the game. If the players never use the Discord, it won't add any value to the game. If one or two players almost never use the Discord and the rest do, those one or two players may feel less invested in the game because they aren't as involved with the other players.

39 minutes ago, Lord Foul said:

Both of the games I'm involved in here have OOC threads as part of the game, to cover all this chat between participants. I thought that was a standard thing.

That's fairly standard, but some GMs prefer to have their OOC in Discord, and others have both an OOC in the forum and a Discord. It's largely what the GM feels works best for them.

[Michael Silverbane]

5 minutes ago, Phntm888 said:

Discord allows for more real time conversation about the game or other topics, which can help replicate the experience of playing around a table and keep player engagement high.

This is only true insofar as the people involved in the game are on the discord simultaneously, which can also true if the people involved in the game are on the forum simultaneously. So, for me, if I am available on Discord I am available on the forum, so its no difference.

[Malkavian Grin]

Discord servers are very hit or miss based on whether your players will buy into it's usefulness or not. You can setup the best server but if no one's using it, what's the point?

[cailano]

9 hours ago, Vladim said:

Generally points I agree with @cailano. The first one I am not so sure about - 5/week feels like an excellent way to get burned out, at least for me, and I've personally managed to run engaging, long-lasting games with much less than that (2-3/week is more my comfort zone these days). But it depends on post contents too-lengthier posts may require slowing down a bit, which has been my preference...

I think this is more a YMMV situation than a good rule or even guideline. But if it works for your group, that's great!

You've been around for a long time, @Vladim, so I know you're speaking from experience, and I respect that. If you say it, I believe it, and the other GMs around here should as well.

All I'll say about my own experience is that my (attempted) five-day schedule has worked for all my groups, and I've had several.

[cailano]

47 minutes ago, Malkavian Grin said:

Discord servers are very hit or miss based on whether your players will buy into it's usefulness or not. You can setup the best server but if no one's using it, what's the point?

This. I've never cared for Discord groups, myself. I mean, I like them if I'm running a weekly online game, but for Myth-Weavers, I like to keep everything in the forum.

The thing I dislike about Discord is that if you're using their free service, you have to use the same alias on every server, and I never know when I'm going to have to use one for something work-related. That one stupid limit (and it's intentional on their part to try to drum up revenue) has been a hard stop for me, in general. I'm no product manager, but IMHO, if you want revenue, you have to add value, not create artificial roadblocks.

[Yamazaki]

14 minutes ago, cailano said:

The thing I dislike about Discord is that if you're using their free service, you have to use the same alias on every server, and I never know when I'm going to have to use one for something work-related. That one stupid limit (and it's intentional on their part to try to drum up revenue) has been a hard stop for me, in general. I'm no product manager, but IMHO, if you want revenue, you have to add value, not create artificial roadblocks.

Actually, it's really easy to get around. If you right-click on the server in question (such as one you've made yourself or anothers') and click "Edit Server Profile", you can change your name for that specific server. Handy if you want to show your character's name instead of your own, or just want to go by something else while putzing around somewhere else. Further changes, like profile pics or even profile details, do require the paid subscription to customize per server.

Note: Myth-Weavers discord insists that you use the same name on the discord as you use here on the forums, for consistency's sake.

 

Additionally, there's discord bots like Tupper that allow you to switch your name and profile image as you need. It's a bit more work (which I don't much care to do personally, but I know many who do), but it's a thing that's out there.

[Phntm888]

2 hours ago, Michael Silverbane said:

This is only true insofar as the people involved in the game are on the discord simultaneously, which can also true if the people involved in the game are on the forum simultaneously. So, for me, if I am available on Discord I am available on the forum, so its no difference.

That is true - see my third point about the drawback of a Discord. For me, if I am on my phone (as is much more likely for me on weekends and in the evenings), it is far quicker for me to notice a Discord notification and go there than it is to actively have to open my web browser and check MW for any notifications. I typically don't spend a lot of time on a computer outside of working hours because I don't have time - Discord's mobile app is more convenient at that time.

I have been part of active Discord servers associated with a PbP game. I have been part of inactive Discord servers associated with a PbP game. In the case of one of the active ones, our level of activity enabled us to finish the first book of an AP much faster than the GM's other two groups that started at the same time because our increased level of activity on Discord led to an increased level of activity on the forums. It's very much a YMMV situation. Worst case scenario, having a Discord does not hurt the pace of the game. Best case scenario, it can lead to increased interest and a quicker pace.

[Roughtrade]

Re: Discord

It only works if everyone uses it. And I hate it.

When I have time for Myth-Writing, I am at my computer doing writing. I sometimes check in the Forum Games from an iPad while idle at something else, but I make time to write for games. I do not need one more thing on my phone or iPad claiming attention when I am away from the computer. Even if I uploaded Discord on my phone, I would keep it turned off.

I was in a game where the GM used Discord chat with two other players but did not update his game with decisions made for the three of us not using Discord. It was frustrating. Even if I had used his Discord it would have been frustrating. Our time zones were several hours out of sync, and unless you were on Discord when the GM was, you didn't get an answer any faster than if you had used OOC on Myth.

In Addition. OOC posts and old messages are easier to track on the forums. Scrolling back through conversations on Discord which often seem to include stupid memes and who knows what crap is annoying. A post on the Forum that I feel is important I can quote and put in my own character thread so that I can refer to it easily without an hour of searching.

[Lord Foul]

In summary:

Some folks like Discord and find it helps

Some folks don't

end of (please)

 

[cailano]

2 hours ago, Lord Foul said:

In summary:

Some folks like Discord and find it helps

Some folks don't

end of (please)

 

Yeah, that's fair. I think people were just giving their why. But I agree enough has been said about it. Don't want to derail the conversation.