Questions

[Delia2531]

28 minutes ago, Steel Warrior said:

Understood, but I actually don't think the list of approved PF Feats is actually up to date. There's like only 2 PF Feats currently listed, and there are multiple apps, including one of my own that have been approved. Anyways, thanks for clarification either way.
 

It would be super helpful if you could flag any that you are aware of in the OOC channels so that we can catch up with our book-keeping please?

It's just one more example of where RFT GMs just don't have enough time to do everything. 🤪

[Steel Warrior]

50 minutes ago, Delia2531 said:

It would be super helpful if you could flag any that you are aware of in the OOC channels so that we can catch up with our book-keeping please?

It's just one more example of where RFT GMs just don't have enough time to do everything. 🤪

Drow Nobility, Drow Nobility, Improved and Drow Nobility, Greater (Greater suggested not taking until higher levels)

[Delia2531]

1 hour ago, Steel Warrior said:

Drow Nobility, Drow Nobility, Improved and Drow Nobility, Greater (Greater suggested not taking until higher levels)

Thanks; having not cropped up in the Questions thread I suspect they got overlooked for an update.

 

I think this is a great example of what we wanted to achieve through the announcement. You went through the build trying out something that caught your eye and produced a PC you want to run in a mission. What we would then ask is that you seek approval for the PF feats before submitting the build for review. Then we can work through the request, you'll have examples of how it might be used, and then when we approve it, approving the build should be easier.

 

And we don't have to review feats/rules that don't lead to fun/successful ideas. 😀

 

If you spot any more please also shout them out.

[Grudge]

Dang, I always forget you can ask for some PF original (no third party) feats. It would make my life a lot easier in at least two builds I'm running. However, I do have a question about some feats that PF doesn't have as 1st party since D&D equivalent entirely was covered by a third party. As a direct example, PF didn't release anything comparable to Tome of Battle but allowed third-party Path of War to cover that. There are feats there that can be universally useful and often are staples of PF games. Like from the top of my head Deadly Agility, I saw it in 3.5 games too sometimes. Would such Feats be allowed to be asked for, for example, if I remembered to ask for concretely Deadly Agility for two of my characters that would benefit from them (even if the other is non-maneuver character) would it be considered?

[DragonFriend]

Only PF SRD and Archives of Nethys Pathfinder feats are available for consideration.

There are ways to get dex to damage in 3.5, but they are situational (Crossbow Sniper feat), or require PrCs and/or specific races.

[Grudge]

That wording is woefully imprecise. The feat is on both. For God's sake, I linked it to PF SRD. The reason why I pulled feats like that out is because there are a number of books never officially covered by Paizo. Third-party fill-in is almost the default. You can't get feats equivalent to Tome of Battle without going to Path of War and it is not the only book. I'm not asking because of a specific feat, or attribute. But because there is no Paizo alternative to the book at all. Which is to be expected. D&D existed in 4 editions before PF 1. I'm not asking them to be taken into consideration, but clarification if there is a D&D book that Paizo didn't bother to convert while basically accepting conversion from another party. Would that Feats be allowed to be asked for? For the simple reason that there is no simple 1/1 comparison as usually there is. It doesn't mean Feat will be allowed, but I mean asking for it on the basis that Paizo didn't bother to make the official book for whatever reason seems reasonable. If being on AoN and PFSRD is the only criteria for eligibility Deadly Agility fits as is hundreds more Feats. I think my suggestion is actually harsher, PF feat has also to be from the book that is alike the book D&D published but Paizo never converted although reaping benefits from conversions Green Ronnin or Dreamscarred Press already done.

Nothing prevents Feat from being denied anyway, but I'd rather it be on merit than simply who wrote it. If you want to keep hanging on to Deadly Agility I used just as an example say it is OP and deny it. I actually do think it's OP but not because of Feat itself but the incredible usefulness of Dexterity itself. Dexterity is an awesome stat and giving it the power of Strength too would be too much IMO. But there are hundreds of other Feats that are neither Deadly Agility nor connected to Dexterity. I think just asking for them shouldn't be a taboo. And that is coming from someone who completely forgot he could ask for PF feats and will likely forget again, and in 4 characters has never done it.

[Delia2531]

This isn't a PF game, the starting point shouldn't be 'how can I bring this PF content in to RFT?'

 

ToB is an acceptable source here at the RFT, there is therefore no need to go looking for PF equivalents to it's contents.

 

We will consider PF feats (from PFSRD) on a case by case basis but if a 3.5 equivalent already exists it is extremely unlikely that we'll approve a PF one instead/as well.

 

PF branched out from D&D as its designers wanted to do things outside the existing SRD; the two are cousins not siblings. Elements of PF are not intended to be backwards compatible by design.

[Grudge]

54 minutes ago, Delia2531 said:

This isn't a PF game, the starting point shouldn't be 'how can I bring this PF content in to RFT?'

 

ToB is an acceptable source here at the RFT, there is therefore no need to go looking for PF equivalents to it's contents.

 

We will consider PF feats (from PFSRD) on a case by case basis but if a 3.5 equivalent already exists it is extremely unlikely that we'll approve a PF one instead/as well.

 

PF branched out from D&D as its designers wanted to do things outside the existing SRD; the two are cousins not siblings. Elements of PF are not intended to be backwards compatible by design.

Still not exactly what I meant but closer. Why do I who doesn't use PF feats at all advocate for them?

 

[Rudolf]

We’ve already approved Shadow Blade, because it’s 3.5 Tome of Battle. Can you work with that? Champion of Corellon Latherian is also possible.
 

Blue Jay has a point, the more time moderators spend on requests, the less time they have for other things.

[Steel Warrior]

There is a huge difference between shadowblade which locks you into a small set of weapons. Shadow Hand associated weapons include the dagger, short sword, sai, siangham, unarmed strike, and spiked chain.

BUT I took the Fighter Targetteer (which was approved list (Dragon magazine)) to get dex to damage with ranged weapons as a gunslinger.

Vital Aim: The targetteer may add his Dexterity modifier to his damage rolls with a ranged-weapon attack instead of his Strength bonus. The targetteer cannot replace a Strength penalty to damage rolls with his Dexterity modifier unless his Dexterity modifier is also a penalty. The targetteer cannot use his Dexterity modifier to replace his Strength modifier when attacking creatures immune to critical hits.

Since we are discussing approvals for PF content and how it's inherently disallowed. Here are 3 PF source legal dex to damage feats that offer other weapon choices.

Slashing Grace (Combat)Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Class Guide © 2014, Paizo Inc

You can stab your enemies with your sword or another slashing weapon.

Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus with chosen weapon.

Benefit: Choose one kind of light or one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword). When wielding your chosen weapon one-handed, you can treat it as a one-handed piercing melee weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a swashbuckler’s or a duelist’s precise strike) and you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied., Fencing Grace (Combat)Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Intrigue © 2016, Paizo Inc

Your dashing style and fluid rapier forms allow you to use agility rather than brute force to fell your foes.

Prerequisite(s): Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (rapier).

Benefit(s): When wielding a rapier one-handed, you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The rapier must be one appropriate for your size. You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or anytime another hand is otherwise occupied.

In addition, if you have the panache class feature, you gain a +2 bonus to your CMD against attempts to disarm you of your rapier while you have at least 1 panache point. and Dervish Dance (Combat)Pathfinder Campaign Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide. © 2011

You have learned to turn your speed into power, even with a heavier blade.

Prerequisites: Dexterity 13, Weapon Finesse, Perform (dance) 2 ranks, proficient with scimitar.

Benefit: When wielding a scimitar with one hand, you can use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on melee attack and damage rolls. You treat the scimitar as a one-handed piercing weapon for all feats and class abilities that require such a weapon (such as a duelist’s precise strike ability). The scimitar must be for a creature of your size. You cannot use this feat if you are carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand.

Edited April 26 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)

[Blue Jay]

8 hours ago, Grudge said:

That wording is woefully imprecise. The feat is on both. For God's sake, I linked it to PF SRD.

As far as I can tell, Deadly Agility is not on either of the two sites we allow you to use.

And just to clear, when someone says "SRD", they're referring to the official System Reference Document. The website you're pulling from (www.d20pfsrd.org) is not an official Paizo website: it's run by the Open Gaming Network, whose entire mission is apparently to aggregate RPG content that isn't protected by US copyright laws.

8 hours ago, Grudge said:

Nothing prevents Feat from being denied anyway, but I'd rather it be on merit than simply who wrote it.

Allowing content on merit alone sounds wonderful, until you're the person who has to do the actual evaluations. It's a lot of work. I know players will be disappointed when our decisions sometimes seem arbitrary, but the bottom line is that we just can't be reviewing content from all across the internet. We have to limit the scope of things somehow, for our own sanity.

We're all adults with adult jobs that take up most of our time. For example, I work on a research farm, and I have a 30-minute commute. When I get home, I have 2 kids and other things to deal with at home. And, I run a real-life 5e campaign on Tuesday nights. So I only have a couple hours a day that I can spend on RFT. So far, this post has taken me 30 minutes to write. I still have 3 missions to update, 2 new character submissions waiting for reviews, and at least two or three content requests in this thread that I haven't gotten to yet; and I've already used up a quarter of my RFT time for today.

So as moderators, we have a vested interest in limiting the amount of content we allow, and restricting by source or publisher is just really convenient for us. I would love to allow other sources, because there's cool stuff everywhere, and stuff that I'd love to try out myself. I even have a spreadsheet where I went ahead of the RLA people and reassigned LAs on my own for every monster in all official sources that I have access to (there are over 4000 entries on the sheet). I would love to offer that for RFT. I would love to use books like Bastards and Bloodlines or Advanced Bestiary (both from Green Ronin), and to put out some RLAs for those; but it's just a whole lot of work, and it's not easy anymore, now that I'm a grown-up with a grown-up job.

This thing where we review individual Pathfinder feats is our way of trying to limit the flow of unfamiliar content. I doubt that it will be sustainable for us in the long run, because individual feat reviews create more work for us. But, just bear with us for some time, until we feel comfortable enough with the material to let it through.

[Grudge]

7 hours ago, Blue Jay said:

As far as I can tell, Deadly Agility is not on either of the two sites we allow you to use.

And just to clear, when someone says "SRD", they're referring to the official System Reference Document. The website you're pulling from (www.d20pfsrd.org) is not an official Paizo website: it's run by the Open Gaming Network, whose entire mission is apparently to aggregate RPG content that isn't protected by US copyright laws.

Allowing content on merit alone sounds wonderful, until you're the person who has to do the actual evaluations. It's a lot of work. I know players will be disappointed when our decisions sometimes seem arbitrary, but the bottom line is that we just can't be reviewing content from all across the internet. We have to limit the scope of things somehow, for our own sanity.

We're all adults with adult jobs that take up most of our time. For example, I work on a research farm, and I have a 30-minute commute. When I get home, I have 2 kids and other things to deal with at home. And, I run a real-life 5e campaign on Tuesday nights. So I only have a couple hours a day that I can spend on RFT. So far, this post has taken me 30 minutes to write. I still have 3 missions to update, 2 new character submissions waiting for reviews, and at least two or three content requests in this thread that I haven't gotten to yet; and I've already used up a quarter of my RFT time for today.

So as moderators, we have a vested interest in limiting the amount of content we allow, and restricting by source or publisher is just really convenient for us. I would love to allow other sources, because there's cool stuff everywhere, and stuff that I'd love to try out myself. I even have a spreadsheet where I went ahead of the RLA people and reassigned LAs on my own for every monster in all official sources that I have access to (there are over 4000 entries on the sheet). I would love to offer that for RFT. I would love to use books like Bastards and Bloodlines or Advanced Bestiary (both from Green Ronin), and to put out some RLAs for those; but it's just a whole lot of work, and it's not easy anymore, now that I'm a grown-up with a grown-up job.

This thing where we review individual Pathfinder feats is our way of trying to limit the flow of unfamiliar content. I doubt that it will be sustainable for us in the long run, because individual feat reviews create more work for us. But, just bear with us for some time, until we feel comfortable enough with the material to let it through.

Once I drop the subject I tend not to revisit it as I see no point, but since you actually taught me about that other PFSRD site I'll make an exemption (hand on heart every time when something was linked it was the site I was linking, and since between it and AoN I got everything I needed I never looked further), so thanks for correcting that mistake.

This post will also be short since I still consider the matter closed I want to clear a few apparent misconceptions. While I'm glad people get use out of their PF feats, as mentioned I don't use them 1) because I forget to be honest and 2) I forget because I have most of 3.5 books and am swamped with info as is. And this is seriously starting to seem like I'm championing them while nothing could be further from the truth. If I were one of RFT's oldtimers PF feats wouldn't be allowed period, but considering I've been here since February I think such an ingrained rule is not for me to talk of removing.

So why do I open my mouth then? Steel mentioned that a place with approved Feats is woefully outdated and in the time since I was here there has been nothing noted approved or denied there, so (for reasons you've mentioned) it would be a bit ridiculous to expect Mod to go back and check everything. Steel apparently already has some of that covered anyway 😋 . My intention was not to start the Holy PF crusade, but to redo cataloging approved Feats. Yes, when it comes to Feats I don't care much do they come from Paizo or Dreamscared Press as long as they are widely used in PF games. Personally, I think they should be allowed to be presented with other Feats (merit thing). But what I wanted is a new or maybe renewed way of cataloging them. As an example of that doing well, @Delia2531 mentioned that I should check if are Goliaths still LA+1, it took me 5 minutes since that area is so well cataloged.

So to finish, it's not that I expect Mods to go hunting for wild Feats but simply do something similar for them. Open the spoiler named PF Feats and start updating it with Feats Steel already found and others just add one by one as they come. Yes, it will take some time, but eventually rather than wasting time here you will be able to point to that folder if someone wants to see if Feat allowed or not. In the long run, I think it would save on Mod time, with only rare Feats landing under their feet here and there. And now I really would like to decouple myself from this issue.

 

Edited April 27 by Grudge (see edit history)

[Steel Warrior]

@Grudge Yeah, goliath is a well deserved LA +1, but if you want better stats, there's always the half-ogre template instead. It's also LA +1.
Going from medium to large will net you +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, Int -2, Cha -2. (Per the house rule). So your base race + template ability scores.

[Grudge]

4 minutes ago, Steel Warrior said:

@Grudge Yeah, goliath is a well deserved LA +1, but if you want better stats, there's always the half-ogre template instead. It's also LA +1.
Going from medium to large will net you +8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, Int -2, Cha -2. (Per the house rule). So your base race + template ability scores.

Noticed it when I was looking for Goliath and a few more (haven't looked into that particular part that often) Might consider it for my unarmed character since some Brawler-like class (Urban Barbarian again) would have fewer stats to look for (Basically Str, Con and boost 1 more). Here thanks to Warblade I really do need Charisma or Intelligence. Although honestly, I placed my extra points in Charisma since the book told me that is thematically appropriate for Warblade then in the first 3 levels hits me with 2 bonuses based on Intelligence, I'm seriously thinking scrapping Charisma and going into Intelligence.

[Steel Warrior]

9 minutes ago, Grudge said:

Noticed it when I was looking for Goliath and a few more (haven't looked into that particular part that often) Might consider it for my unarmed character since some Brawler-like class (Urban Barbarian again) would have fewer stats to look for (Basically Str, Con and boost 1 more). Here thanks to Warblade I really do need Charisma or Intelligence. Although honestly, I placed my extra points in Charisma since the book told me that is thematically appropriate for Warblade then in the first 3 levels hits me with 2 bonuses based on Intelligence, I'm seriously thinking scrapping Charisma and going into Intelligence.

Yes, hence the Primordial Giant template LA +0 can be applied to any giant (Half-ogre template) which helps negate the mental disadvantages at the cost of 4 str, 2 con.

Oslecamo Storm Giant is also an approved source. You could be a Primordial Storm Giant.

Also the FAQ section, if you choose not to take "growth" instead you remain the same size, but gain +2 in a physical ability score.
I don't want to grow!
If a monster class would make you grow but you would rather stay in your previous size, you may instead simply gain a +2 to a physical stat of your choice. This includes changeable growths like the elemental classes have, but once done the decision is permanent.

Edited April 27 by Steel Warrior (see edit history)