Why admissions?

[Tecmes]

I notice most games seem to involve the Admission process, whereby people post characters and ideas and after some weeks the GM selects a few to be part of the game.

Err. Why? Why not first-in, first-serve and start the game ASAP? Has there been unusual issues with that scheme in the past?

[Veradux]

We do both, though as you observe application periods are more common. Over the years, the general culture of the site has shifted toward that mostly due to observed habits rather than actual burns. On occasion, we do see first-come-first-serve leading to burnt-out games and higher turnover rates, but that's definitely not a rule. The real reason, I think, is that play-by-post is usually aiming for the long game, not the ASAP game. I'm running a game that's been running for four and a half years. If I dig back through and picked the first six who posted interest, five of them never finished their sheet, three of them (with overlap) haven't logged in for several years, and one is banned! It's far from uncommon for users state their interest, open an application, and just never do anything more. I'd say there's about a 50% completion rate among the big systems (PF/D&D).
It's not unusual to be excited about "Oh hey a new Kingmaker game!" and then posting interest/a placeholder application before reading the houserules. And then finding out the GM is doing something wacky that you're not interested in.

However, I think the real reason is that it can accidentally lead to "power users". IE, people who watch the advertising section like a hawk and are almost always the first to post. If FCFS was the norm, I'd probably never get into a game! Heck, if first-to-finish was the norm I'd still probably never get in! But I could think of about 5 people who would suddenly be in 70% of all games of specific systems. Applications can give an extra layer of parity.

[Neopopulas]

To add, if you just pick the first X people, you have no idea the sort of players and characters you'll get, you'll end up with a few people in every game just posting ASAP and you are.. i guess.. stuck with the characters they make? And if you don't like the characters and they aren't willing to compromise, you have to kick them out and start all over again. The application period - which can be overlong sometimes i agree - means that you can at least get a sense of the player and see what sort of character they are making before they join the game.

[Rudra]

Because gming isnt a service, it's more like inviting people to your home, you pick those you like, not the first who express interest

Also supply and demand, there are significantly more players than gm, based on the system you can get 3,4 or even 5 times the number of players you are seeking, a pathfinder game could draw 20+ potential players while the gm seek 4.

Why should the gm pick the first 4 applicants and not the best (best in the gm opinion) 4?

Making and running a game require time and dedication, it is fun for the gm but it also require effort, i think it's perfectly reasonable to let the gms decide who to play with.

 

 

[Butchern]

I tend to agree with everything that has already been said, but just wanted to post here to encourage you that you can absolutely run a game and handle your players exactly this way if you want, and if you like this method, you should!

[Michael Silverbane]

I need to preface my comment with the fact that I have not successfully run a game. I've started a few games, but they have all died, due to my own shortcomings.

 

Rather than a first-come first-served or a apply-and-hope situation, you can also do games by invitation.

The last few games that I have started have been this way. I set up a game, usually based on something I've seen in the Game Planning Forum (now in the general gaming forum), and then invite the people in the thread that inspired the game. Theoretically, this gets you people who are directly invested in the game that you've started. And, except that I am apparently unable to properly run a game, this has worked out pretty well, getting me really good players.

[Heretic Burger]

Writing as someone who hasn't yet run a game here....

I don't let the first four people who show up at my house play what I'm running, why would it be any different here? I wouldn't want to waste my or the other players time,energy and comfort by playing with someone who was a giant red flag but had turned up first.

[Tecmes]

6 hours ago, Heretic Burger said:

I don't let the first four people who show up at my house play what I'm running,

Why not? That's what happens in a RPG club, a convention or a gaming shop (granted, that's not "my house").

More importantly, if not, what's the criteria? That's what bugs me. To say "there are pitfalls with playing with the first four through the door" is not the same as saying "let's run admissions for a month, let people write long enthusiastic writeups and create elaborate characters, then pick four out of twenty with no rationale or criteria given". I dunno, as a geek I don't think I need MORE of the "let's get picked last for dodge ball" experience.

[TiffanyKorta]

The thing to remember is that unless you're running a rapid-fire game, which is obviously a legit option, PBP is a medium to long-form game. And a lot of those first posters are the ones that burn out really quickly. It's a really terrible way to do things, as are most methods really, but at least by having a wait time you get people that are more likely to stay around.

[bwatford]

15 minutes ago, Tecmes said:

Why not? That's what happens in a RPG club, a convention or a gaming shop (granted, that's not "my house").

More importantly, if not, what's the criteria? That's what bugs me. To say "there are pitfalls with playing with the first four through the door" is not the same as saying "let's run admissions for a month, let people write long enthusiastic writeups and create elaborate characters, then pick four out of twenty with no rationale or criteria given". I dunno, as a geek I don't think I need MORE of the "let's get picked last for dodge ball" experience.

Honestly, you are free to run games anyway that you like, that ball is totally in your court. I have done it both ways, and ways in between, and having a detailed application process (as long as it may be) has led to better players, better writers in this medium, and games that have spanned many, many years. Games that I have done quick pick, random selections, etc have each crashed and burned within a few months.

If an applicant is not willing to put the time and effort into the selection process, and the effort to build out a detailed character for a game that is very narratively written, and very slow paced then odds are the first thing that comes along will pull them right away as they have no investment.

Just my two cents.

[Eagleheart]

20 minutes ago, Tecmes said:

as a geek I don't think I need MORE of the "let's get picked last for dodge ball" experience.

Understandable, but as an adult you should understand that people have jobs, live in different time zones, etc. If you do "first come, first served" you are essentially punishing those people for factors that are outside of their control.

[Vladim]

The application paradigm sucks, you are right about that. What also sucks is GMing a game and ending up with players who ghost in the first week, or massive jerks. Between the two, applications are the lesser of two evils.

Some GMs will list selection criteria in their ads. For others, you just have to read between the lines and try to figure it out yourself. If you want to bother, that is. Or just submit a character and don't care too much about the outcome. Char-gen is fun on its own. Or apply to niche systems; you'll have a higher chance of acceptance. Or play solo games-who needs GMs anyway?

Regardless, remember that player selection is always subjective, and sometimes completely arbitrary. So rejection does not really mean all that much. I've had the same character praised for the quality of writing by some GMs, and rejected by others. Don't take rejection too badly-it happens, but it doesn't say much about your abilities as a writer (or player).

[Heretic Burger]

11 hours ago, Tecmes said:

Why not? That's what happens in a RPG club, a convention or a gaming shop (granted, that's not "my house").

More importantly, if not, what's the criteria? That's what bugs me. To say "there are pitfalls with playing with the first four through the door" is not the same as saying "let's run admissions for a month, let people write long enthusiastic writeups and create elaborate characters, then pick four out of twenty with no rationale or criteria given". I dunno, as a geek I don't think I need MORE of the "let's get picked last for dodge ball" experience.

I've only seen the 'first come first serve' happen at a gaming convention, for the other two there's at least some discussion. As @TiffanyKorta pointed out PBP is at the least a medium term format are (in my experience) games at gaming groups and shops. First come first serve works and is totally legitimate for convention gaming as one shots are a different beast in regards to expectations and longevity and the effort and investment put in by players (GM's might have a different opinion).

 

There should be some rough guide to criteria and there are unspoken ones - believe it or not I've seen people not follow the character creation guidlines and be surprised at not getting accepted. If you said a GM not giving you some guidance on their acceptence criteria was a red flag I would fully support you with that.

 

However it is nothing like 'being picked last at dodgeball' and that assertion speaks volumes. This is not enforced physical exercise at school, this is people likely with responsibilities outside of the game who have sunk time, effort and in most instance a chunk of money into running a game. This is their leisure time, they are not compelled to pick anyone they don't want to and at the very end of it all don't owe anyone an explanation as to why they don't want to spend their hard earned leisure time with them - although it would polite and generous of them to say why not in many instances.

 

As an adult navigating the real world I don't need MORE of the "people feeling entitled to my time and effort" experience.

[Tecmes]

Thanks for all these thoughts and points. Indeed it speaks to my experience, but come to think of it, while I used to PbP from website that didn't do admissions, said experience was mostly made of failed games, crashing, burning, and not lifting off, so I guess there was a hint there, that at least some compromise is in order...

[Eric]

I echo those feelings--part of why I switched to Myth-Weavers was burnout from all the FCFS games that died within a week. However, even apply-accept games can suffer from this; there are lots of people who really really like the process of making a character, but then aren't invested in playing it... 😆

Ultimately the goal is to find a group of like-minded folks who you are happy to be together with for a year or two (or more!).