out of character The Tomb

[Vedast]

28 minutes ago, VennDygrem said:

Administer First Aid doesn't have the Healing trait, so it can be used on us even without the Stitch Flesh feat. Treat Wounds does have the trait, and therefore needs the feat to be able to heal us up.

Good observation.

Is is interesting, on the other hand, that the Soothe spell has the healing trait, yet Book of the Dead is explicit that Soothe works on undead see: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1693 .

Razvan won't look a gift horse in the mouth, however.

 

[Vedast]

I just read that Krott used a Hero Point. Tbh, I've never looked at Hero Points, perhaps out of an Old School sensibility, so that avenue wasn't on my radar.

That being said, I just read up on Hero Points in the CRB and, if we are using them, I suppose Razvan could use a Hero Point (all that he has?) to avoid 'destruction.' If I understand this correctly, he'd lose the Dying Condition, remain at 0 hp and not gain a Wounded Condition? This way, Krott would be able directly to "Treat Wounds" without having to use a Hero Point of his own to reroll the Administer First Aid check. If @hoverfrog agrees with this and would allow that bit of retroactive 'fixing,' then the onus of using the Hero Point would fall properly on Razvan.

Regarding Aid to the Medicine, I believe it is Mr. Mud who is Trained in Medicine and could Aid as per GM's home rule up above in this thread.

=> For Aid, I've been using a DC of whatever the DC is for the action -2 in another game. So Aid in a Medicine check, as long as you are both trained would be DC 15 for Medicine and DC 13 for Aid (i.e. with the help of an Aid action).

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Vedast (see edit history)

[VennDygrem]

I think it's largely because the undead healing rules were written poorly. 🙃
In one area it says "positive healing" effects don't work, while elsewhere it just says "healing" effects don't work. It's basically due to errata that wasn't thorough or clear enough. Hopefully the remaster helps clarify things.

Re: Hero Points, I could have sworn we determined we were using these as they're baked into the default rules, as far as I'm aware, but now I can't find that.

If we're not using them, then you can ignore the reroll and any mention of the hero point spent. 😬

[Vedast]

11 minutes ago, VennDygrem said:

I think it's largely because the undead healing rules were written poorly. 🙃
In one area it says "positive healing" effects don't work, while elsewhere it just says "healing" effects don't work. It's basically due to errata that wasn't thorough or clear enough. Hopefully the remaster helps clarify things.

Re: Hero Points, I could have sworn we determined we were using these as they're baked into the default rules, as far as I'm aware, but now I can't find that.

If we're not using them, then you can ignore the reroll and any mention of the hero point spent. 😬

Agreed.

Re: your IC post, I believe that Krott can Treat Wounds on himself (it is an explicit parenthetical in the Treat Wounds description). With Mr. Mud's Aid, the DC would drop to 13.

[VennDygrem]

You're right, though I'd like that aid settled because my bonus to medicine is trivial at best. I feel like I've got no business being trained in it. 😂

[Starhawk]

Can we bring in Rakle's character to replace the ghosted Lorelei? This is generally what happens when folk ghost in the middle of a combat.

[Vedast]

I think I've mentioned this before, but I believe that Sal's max HP total as a Human Wizard (2) with CON = 12 should be:

• Human => 8
• Wizard 2 => 2x6=12
• CON +1x2 => 2

For a total of 22 (not 15). So I think Sal should be 10/22 (not 3/15 as on the post template). Still hurt, of course, but not quite as bad.

 

Will await GM word on Hero Points before posting with Razvan back on his feet. Assuming that is a GO (so that Razvan can alleviate the Dying Condition and allow Krott to Treat Wounds without requiring an Administer First Aid Check), I'll post a short narrative from Razvan's point of view.

 

I think TT are very capable for a "level 1" creature (as they are listed). About the only 'low' value they have is a weak AC, but they have quite high +9 attack bonus (even with an Expert proficiency, and +3 STR, level 1 => +8 so I don't know where the +9 comes from). With AoO, they are effectively 1st level fighters with regeneration, special attacks, resistances (and weaknesses, to be fair). So failing to distract them; or to get inside and toss out the guard as a morsel; or for them to make (or not need) a morale check when the leader/guard fell ... yeah, we were fortunate that Sal got off that Color Spray. We also had a tough go lacking any fire spells/items and thus had to use a lot of Actions to deal with the regeneration.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Vedast (see edit history)

[hoverfrog]

Hero points are in play, yes.

[Vedast]

Thought a succinct current (1630 27OCT) hp status might be helpful:

Loreli: 26/30

M&C: 32/32

Krott: 27/30 x1 successful Treat Wounds

Sal: 10/22 (by my reckoning). x1 unsuccessful Treat Wounds

Razvan: 14/32. x1 successful Treat Wounds

[Vedast]

Lest we fall into a bit of a post-action lull, maybe a gentle sitrep - at least from my pov:

• Krott needs to wait an hour (from the time of starting Treating Wounds - let's call it 2200 hours or so?) before he can start again with each treatment taking 10-mins (I'm figuring that 2200 Razvan; 2210; himself; 2220 Sal). So on this relative timeline, we'd be at 2230 with Krott realizing that he wasn't able to help Sal on this attempt. He could try again starting at 2300.
• Can Sal gobble down a TT and/or the guard for sustenance? Would that help? I know you don't have the Replenishing Consumption Feat (yet).
• We probably need an explicit post from Allefgib that M&C would be 'Aiding' Krott so as to attain the -2 on the DC (15 => 13).
• I think Sal & Razvan both need another fair/average successful Treat Wounds before continuing. OtoH, Razvan has to be aware of the approach of dawn. @hoverfrog, how many "levels" are there to this tower would we estimate from looking at it during our approach?
• Razvan could (is willing to) continue as he is, but he'd probably have to relegated to a back-rank supporting (with bow) character in any combat.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Vedast (see edit history)

[VennDygrem]

I think part of the problem was Razvan expected the group to be able to make it into the tower along with him, while they ended up being held up by the troblins, cutting him off from assistance. If we go in with a bit more planning and strategy, we may be able to avoid this from happening so badly again.

[Vedast]

27 minutes ago, VennDygrem said:

I think part of the problem was Razvan expected the group to be able to make it into the tower along with him, while they ended up being held up by the troblins, cutting him off from assistance. If we go in with a bit more planning and strategy, we may be able to avoid this from happening so badly again.

To be honest, it was the one trolblin going inside that 'surprised' me. I was hoping to one-on-one the guard and then go with our plan to perhaps offer the body of the guard to any surviving trolblins. That, and the trolblin rolling 18 and 20 on attack rolls (3/20)(1/20) < 1% chance. And we rolled collectively quite poorly I think (especially for damage) it is fair to say.

Yes, that was a bit of a bold dash, but we'd likely be outside looking at a locked door and alerted inhabitants (and maybe they are anyway) otherwise.

OOC observation: we equipped ourselves (and built our characters) as individuals with only a broad general context. We didn't have that 'meet at the tavern' to assess the group and mission and go on a shopping trip to seek for ways to minimize weaknesses or gaps in the group's capabilities. Of course, that is part of the narrative drama.

[allefgib]

On 10/27/2023 at 7:35 AM, Vedast said:

Good observation.

Is is interesting, on the other hand, that the Soothe spell has the healing trait, yet Book of the Dead is explicit that Soothe works on undead see: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=1693 .

Razvan won't look a gift horse in the mouth, however.

 

I picked up soothe for Mr Mud for this very reason.

[hoverfrog]

On 10/29/2023 at 3:13 PM, Vedast said:

Lest we fall into a bit of a post-action lull, maybe a gentle sitrep - at least from my pov:

• Krott needs to wait an hour (from the time of starting Treating Wounds - let's call it 2200 hours or so?) before he can start again with each treatment taking 10-mins (I'm figuring that 2200 Razvan; 2210; himself; 2220 Sal). So on this relative timeline, we'd be at 2230 with Krott realizing that he wasn't able to help Sal on this attempt. He could try again starting at 2300.
• Can Sal gobble down a TT and/or the guard for sustenance? Would that help? I know you don't have the Replenishing Consumption Feat (yet).
• We probably need an explicit post from Allefgib that M&C would be 'Aiding' Krott so as to attain the -2 on the DC (15 => 13).
• I think Sal & Razvan both need another fair/average successful Treat Wounds before continuing. OtoH, Razvan has to be aware of the approach of dawn. @hoverfrog, how many "levels" are there to this tower would we estimate from looking at it during our approach?
• Razvan could (is willing to) continue as he is, but he'd probably have to relegated to a back-rank supporting (with bow) character in any combat.

The troblins are living creatures and so perfectly edible for the undead.

The tower is quite tall, you'd guess about size levels though ceiling height might make that more or less.

[Starhawk]

Replenishing Consumption, the reason I went ghoul, looks like a 4th level feat, so have to wait a while. Sal will happily continue from the rear ranks..